Description
***6 DAYS LEFT***
I am posting this to help you guys sign the petition to stop the M855 ban. It's pretty easy to sign and I hope helps.
Don't forget you have to check your email and verify to make it legit. If your not comfortable putting your info out there please share this link where ever you can.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stop-batfe-banning-xm855-ammunition/XrvVh1cj...
So a good friend of mine has told me:
"What we all need to do is e-mail the BATF! It's to late for a petition. Do the following: The ATF has said that they “will carefully consider all comments, as appropriate, received on or before March 16, 2015″ at this email address:
Consider using the following template:
Subject line: Proposed Ammo Ban
To Whom It May Concern;
I am writing to express my opposition to the proposed administrative ban of lawful ammunition, namely M855 or SS109 commonly known as “green tip.” This ammunition uses a 62 grain projectile that has a steel core component. This ammunition was designed in the cold war era to penetrate eastern bloc helmets and body armor. It is ineffective against the modern body armor available to, and commonly used by law enforcement and the military. It has no armor piercing properties. This ammunition has become an inexpensive sporting round used by many in AR15 and other modern sporting rifles. This administrative ban by BATFE regulation is another affront to the liberty and rights of the citizens of the United States. We have suffered continuous bureaucratic regulation and arbitrary rule changes that impose an undue burden upon the law abiding citizen. Such regulation is put in place without legislative endorsement or judicial oversight. This proposed regulation will not serve to enhance public safety or deter criminals. It will simply create yet another hardship on citizens using it for lawful purposes, and ammunition manufacturers. Sincerely,
Your Name here"
I think he has an awesome approach to this issue. I think it is hard enough to get people to sign the petition, However, the motivated 3% or so may like the opportunity to try to fight the encroachment on our rights.
***NEW***
Or FAX them at:
Fax: (202) 648-9741.
This E-Fax initiative is interesting. It takes about 60 seconds to receive a fax and their are thousands waiting to go through. If you have already signed and/or want to gum up the works a bit, please try an E-Fax:
Over 30,720 people have shared their objections with the ATF and Congress. Keep up the good work!
We are at: ***ALMOST THERE!***
SIGNATURES NEEDED BY MARCH 16, 2015
TO REACH GOAL OF 100,000,
15,858 more to go
TOTAL SIGNATURES ON THIS PETITION
84,142
Thanks for the comments and your help and support!!
(This is not a random bump, it is an update to information here. Admin/Mods please don't delete)
Comments (82)
@HESH24 - please change the picture from Hobama to something else... I really don't want to see his face anymore than I have too.
Lets get this thing well over the 100K mark. If we can't be organized enough to meet that low threshold why should they care what we think?
17,515 to go!
SIGNATURES ON THIS PETITION 72,750
Congress critters don't give a rat's patootie about "we the people". The only thing they respect is power, in this case the NRA which can & does keep individuals out of office. I've long thought it's too bad that the NRA is a one issue outfit. They could do the same thing for veterans' problems or tax reform, any number of things. America is ruled by corporations & the NRA is the only "peoples' group" I can think of that counters them. We need another trust buster like T.R. .
The problem with the NRA is the same with the NAACP; they refuse to discuss ANYTHING. You either accept their terms or are labeled a traitor / part of the problem. They do not welcome opinions....unless your "opinion" matches their talking point of the day verbatim.
It sounds like you've seen this first hand. I haven't, but I believe you that it's like that.
They have an ad on youtube now "the NRA is in every fight". That's blatantly false. They do not support lawsuits relating to state Firearm Freedom Act laws. Do they think the 10th Amendment is somehow separate from the 2nd? It's a package deal!
Dont fight with eachother.. The people in power
They are in control no matter what you do
Never seen a group of gun owners protest but that may change this
Wish I could sign this petition as many times as individuals voted for Obama. Vote early.. vote often! =).
As it is, it's presently hysteria and an opportunity for the resellers to capitalize on it. Just when you thought it calmed down and the .22LR gouging videos would end.... =P
Obama does not care. No mo elections fo him
He is just going to declare martial law, take our guns, and throw us all in reeducation camps like he did back in 2008 when he knew he didn't have a chance of getting reelected. BTW, this camp looks a lot like my home and the decorating is very familiar ;)
I would sign it but I have zero doubt that these socialist bas**rds in the executive branch will not listen to we the people.
Sad but true
King Obama stopped listening to we the people many years ago. Now we're just serfs waiting for Jan 20th 2016 to get here and maybe we'll have a leader that listens to his constituents.
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
855/ss109 by the atfs own definition is not armor piercing.
The projectile is lead and steel. Lead is not on the list.
the jacket is not more than 25% of the bullet weight
No such thing as relax. Only panic....rolls eyes....
*SIGH*
People got into a panic when even the SUGGESTION of limiting our access to firearms/ammo was made. That caused the supply/demand/price fiasco over the past few years. Now people are in a panic because they sincerely believe this ammo is going to be banned.
Wake up please. It's not getting banned. Because of the illogical panic, prices have gone "22LR" on us. Please, just relax.
I bet some people said the same about 7n6 ammo...plenty of gun shop owners on youtube state that even the distributors they get their ammo from can no longer get m855 and it is all dried up already... I don't know why they would lie.
Electronic petitions do nothing except give someone (Gov. included) an email to watch. Obama is losing his job in a few years.
If you want an impact complain (respectfully) to your legislator and senators. They are in fear of losing their jobs if they piss off "We the People". They are more afraid of your writing them than they are of any petition.
This.
Email your legislator and senators.
The ATF are interpreting is WRONGLY. And the Executive Branch should not be interpreting law anyway. The law applies to calibers that were ORIGINALLY INTENDED AS HANDGUN AMMUNITION. 9mm, 45ACP, 32ACP .40 S&W, etc.
Also, a rifle without a stock is NOT a handgun. If it can't be held and aimed comfortably with 1 hand, it is NOT a handgun. They can't go redefining words whenever they want. These laws are passed with an air of informed consent of the people, using the LANGUAGE of the bill. If the words in the bill have been redefined to the point that they DON'T MEAN WHAT PEOPLE THINK THEY MEAN then there is no INFORMED CONSENT. Without informed consent you are no better than Russia.
Wait, I thought AR / AK pistols were handguns after the last letter regarding the Sig "brace" regardless of how they were fired but now they are `un-handuns' to make this ATF measure invalid? What does that do to the last letter or is their definition fluid depending on the topic?
Please note I think the entire NFA firearm act is a steaming pile of dung but find this flip flopping between `point's' overly amusing. To hold these stances you must pretend the last position you held is invalid...until the topic changes of course.
Just because a law is passed in a certain jurisdiction defining a handgun to be an ice cream machine, it doesn't mean an ice cream machine is a handgun.
These AR/AK variants we are seeing are SBRs without stocks. They cannot be comfortably fire with one hand, ergo they are not handguns, as understood by the vast majority of people. When these laws were written, they did not intend to ban rifle ammo just because ACME ARMS comes out with a chopped-off AR range toy.
They intended REAL HANDGUN AMMO, and EVERY piece of evidence we have, even the original democrats who sponsored it, says so.
Try to catch this point: These laws are passed with an air of informed consent of the people, using the LANGUAGE of the bill. If the words in the bill have been redefined to the point that they DON'T MEAN WHAT PEOPLE THINK THEY MEAN then there is no INFORMED CONSENT.
The entire "sbr without a stock" concept proves my point. It is a "pistol" when we are referring to a firearm but becomes a rifle when discussing ammo. God forbid we bring up dessert...it might just become an ice cream machine if it suits the point the person is trying to make or the law the person is try to skirt.
I had a M92 and own a 10.5 inch AR "pistol" with a brace. At this point when you can get 9mm carbines, 7.62 pistols, and .410 revolvers the difference in the ammo`s classification is really blurred. That is like say "diesel is truck fuel" while driving a diesel car.
Again, I am not arguing the laws, their merits (or lack thereof), or the NFA's craptastic language but commenting on the ever changing arguments of some people depending on the topic of the minute.
It's not so convoluted. If it can't be comfortably shot by one hand, it's not really a handgun/pistol. We've accepted the language that defines these <16in barrel range toys without stocks as "pistols", but only because it didn't make any difference to our lives at that time. It's only legalese.
The intent of the law, per the significant debate that went on at the time, was gangbangers tucking a real handgun under their belt full of AP ammo. And that was the information that the voters had, when they had a choice about who to elect. Not a "quote-pistol-endquote" as defined by group of lawyers.
I agree completely but these internet lawyer-wannabe's confuse matters....especially which such "legalese" phrases as "it's not really a handgun/pistol" because it's not "comfortable." I don't find shooting a 10 ga shotgun off the shoulder "comfortable" but that does not make it a mounted weapon either. Is a 22lr a rifle or pistol round? A 40 caliber rifle is now a pistol because of the round or a rifle because of the length? Maybe I am the only one who sees these gray areas.....
Not at all, the majority see it gray.
We should separate facts from legal language. We've been calling these range toys 'pistols' just because that's the US Code on the matter.
Consider an analogy. Federal law considers a lower a firearm. Many state laws only consider something which can fire a projectile to be a firearm, so a lower is not. It's a part. The state laws are correct. The federal law is just using convoluted legal language to define a thing. Same for suppressors. Defined in federal law to be a firearm. But yet clearly not really a firearm. So does a guy introduce his suppressor collection to his buddy saying "look at my cool firearms" - no, because that's just legalese; they're not really firearms. Same for these 'pistols'. They've been defined that way by some law, but are not really so.
The law has been twisted and manipulated until what was CLEARLY intended for handgun ammo (45, 40, 9mm, 32ACP, etc) is now used for everything, because we have subtly accepted the changing of definitions over time.
You seem to accept your version of "clearly" as written in stone to another random individual's version of the same word as being subjective. Clearly if there are indeed "changing of definitions over time" your interpretation and another person's can't possibly be the same every time as their view and yours might have evolved at different times.
For example "we" have not called stockless rifle caliber pistols "range toys"....YOU HAVE. A derringer is a "range toy" to me but a pistol to another person. Your view on an AK pistol might not repersent the US Government's view of it nor is anyone going to quote your opinions if they get charged with a crime no matter how 'common knowledge' something is to you. "Everyone knows going 10 mph over the speed limit isn't REALLY speeding" does not hold up in court.
"Your view on an AK pistol might not repersent the US Government's view"
You're missing the point. It's no one's view. Just like it's no one's view that a lower is a firearm, or that a suppressor is a firearm. It's just a legal fiction.
You can look at 1000 guys using an AR pistol at the range, and 999 of them will be holding the front end with their other hand, because it's a large unconcealable thing. The other one will just be trying it out with one hand just to see if it works. Then he quickly finds out that his shooting accuracy is approximately the same as an orangutang.
***I am not arguing if a AK / AR pistol is one handed weapon or not.*** My point is it is a "pistol" when avoiding SBR laws but it magically becomes a "rifle" when defining rifle ammunition.
I do not care what your view vs my view vs the government's view vs Papa Smurf's view on the subject....I am making light of the 'organic' definition depending on the topic. If we were discussing a loaded rifle in a car (illegal in quite a few states) you would clinging to the government's classification of your "stockless SBR" as a pistol.
"discussing a loaded rifle in a car"
Interesting example. It depends on the state's definition of rifle. If they defined it the same as the US does, then yes the same legal fiction would apply.
Consider though, it may not apply. It depends how their law is written. A state may choose to define a rifle as any firearm which fires ammunition originally intended to be used in rifles. I don't know every state's laws. I doubt if every state has the same definition. For sure, not all states share the US definition of lower and suppressor as being a firearm.
Bottom line, words should mean what most people think they mean, because senators and congresspeople tell their constituents "this is what the new law is going to say", and those constituents act according to their own definitions. If the law is rewriting definitions on the fly, then it's a simple shell game.
There was a huge important agreement with the people when this law was passed that it did NOT apply to rifle ammo. And everyone knew that .223/5.56 was rifle ammo. And .308, and 30-06, and the rest.
Sadly our commander in chief has said in no uncertain terms he will be squeezing every bit of change in the last two years he has left in office.
Sad it will be a change for the worse. I also feel sad for our men and woman servicemen under his charge. Hard to serve under a president that he himself has never served.
The only change I want is for my calendar to change to January 20th, 2017. The day Obama and his minions leave the White House.
701 days 11 hours 33 minutes and a wake up call till then.
Sorry, no "lib here at all, but I really must play devil's advocate. Appropriate since you seem to regard our current CiC as satan incarnate.
But our last one did not "serve" either. Frankly, King Bama has been a far better president than Cheney ever was.
Conservative politicians are only interested in conforming with requests the gun-lobby and keeping things the status quo, not improving our gun rights.
Now don't get me wrong. I'm glad they may risk a NRA-sponsored backlash next election if they step out of line, but don't just assume every Conservative is actually pro-gun.
Remember Bush Jr had to borrow a shotgun every time he made a show that he was going hunting in his campaign for governor. He couldn't even load it, had to have someone else do it while he would accuse his Dem opponent of being a communist, lesbian, anti-gunner. Btw, she was actually a pro-business grandmother who would bring guns from her own private collection, but cant let the truth get in the way of office.
Cheney was never president and irrelevant, I never called President Obama a CiC Satan Incarnate, although he is a conniving, secretive president that refuses to follow the will of the majority of constituents. I was talking about serving, I challenge you to find ten random soldiers on active duty, and ask them if they have confidence in their commander in chief. If more than one says yes, I'd be shocked.
PS, For what it's worth, George W had signed up to serve. The only dotted line Obama signed was his Harvard debate team's roster, that's not serving. It only strengthened his conniving skills, skills he is using, not for the betterment of the country..
Being that Bush Sr. was the president of the United States. I'm sure he gave George W better advise at times better than Michelle Obama's whispers in POTUS's ear.
I had high hopes for President Obama, but his secretive nature is exactly the opposite of his 1st campaign promise of being transparent.
The only thing both President Obama and President George Walker have in common is that they both had vice presidents stuck on stupid, although Cheney wasn't as stuck on stupid as Joe Biden.
Even though I'm not happy with President Obama, I pray nothing happens to him as America would not survive Shotgun Joe Biden's tenure, if even for a day..
Bush Jr "signed up to serve" in the Texas Air National Guard where the Viet Cong didn't have have much of a foothold yet then spent a year "training" only to have unexplained times AWOL just as long to magically be released from service all while the records to be forever "redacted." Bush Sr was badass, Bush Jr was riding daddy's coattails in the middle of war in the safest possible place as an officer in training on American soil who didn't show up for duty.
And Sly Stallone did multiple "Rambo" movies after he came back from Sweden post-Vietnam. At least Bush Jr. actually served and "could" have been called up. King Obama has 0.. zip... Nada military experience. /TROLL on WooHoo enjoy your ranting.. you've hit level (14)!
Guess you missed the part about being AWOL for a year and being in the Air National Guard during Vietnam. Now a days National Guard units get called to serve overseas as a matter of policy but back then it was 0.3 percent who actually did. That is ZERO *POINT* THREE. Everyone knows Obama is an illegal alien anyway therefore could not have served...duh!
Hard to follow the possibly libertarian rant, but who was this grandma we're talking about?
From the ATF kids history (page http://www.atf.gov/kids/about/history/... ) :
Effective January 24, 2003, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) was transferred under the Homeland Security bill to the Department of Justice. ATF’s responsibility is established by congressional action. ATF cannot enact a law, nor can it amend the law. Charged as it is with fiscal oversight of some of the most controversial topics in Western civilization, ATF strives to maintain professional neutrality while giving a 35-to-1 return on every dollar it spends.
Of course, charging $200 / can or SBR-SBS, they can burn tons of $$ and still keep a 35:1 ratio. It seems we have a Stasi force in the making.
E petitions have NO LEGAL VALIDITY. They mean nothing and will be disregarded by any government. I challenge anyone here to prove otherwise.
No one is saying that they have validity dumb ass.... It just to help raise awareness that WE THE PEOPLE dont want this stupid arbitrary ban. The ATF asked for comments on the potential ban and this is one facet of doing so.
I'd like to see that Kenyan in a video wearing an orange jumpsuit with his new Arab friend wearing black. It would be even better with his Wookie and the two soon-to-be sluts kneeling next to him.
Can anyone just post a petition no mater how stupid? I looked at some of the others and heres some samples sorted by popularity.
End the attack on the sport of airsoft.
Seriously? Sport? I wasnt even aware there were attacks on airsoft.
Classify Refusal To Vaccinate Children As A Mental Disorder.
Yes lets let the govt make up medical diagnosis, great idea.
award racing legend A. J. Foyt the Presidential Medal of Freedom in recognition of his contributions to auto racing.
Im not a racing fan but come on.
MAKE MARIJUANA LEGAL!
yeah
Pardon non-violent drug offenders. Free them all. -
people actually sign this
appear on Unprofessional Fridays and play a video game on February 13th while he is visiting San Francisco. -
919 supporters
Mandate higher lactation room standards for federal employers. -
Do a lot of women bring their kids to work at their federal jobs?
Its just real hard to take even the best petition seriously when those are allowed.